First off – a quick tour: the size and layout of our closet is such that three 39″ wide PAX wardrobe frames lined up end-to-end perfectly fit the space along the far wall, leaving just a few inches between each end and the wall. On the wall to the right when you enter the closet is a fourth 39″ wide PAX unit.
Unlike in the layout pic, the three PAX frames on the long wall are connected together with no gaps in between (unfortunately, without a wide angle lens, I can’t get a pic of them all together):
IKEA currently has three different PAX wardrobe colors to choose from: white, black-brown, and white stained oak effect. We went with black-brown since we have a similar colored vanity in the master bathroom that our closet is off of. There are lots of options for customizing the interior of the PAX wardrobe frames – the accessories that we included in our design are:
*KOMPLEMENT clothes rails for our hanging clothes (they also sell the clothes rails in white):
*KOMPLEMENT pull-out pants hangers (they also sell the pants hangers in white):
*KOMPLEMENT shoe organizer (Update!: IKEA has replaced this type of shoe organizer with pull out shoe shelves and trays)
*KOMPLEMENT drawers (which are now also offered with clear fronts as an option)
*KOMPLEMENT wire basket (they also sell the wire basket in white):
*SKUBB boxes in white – three of them placed side by side perfectly fit a 39″ wardrobe frame. As you can see, they have front handles that make it easy to pull them down from a high shelf.
We also have a full-length mirror on the far right wall (the older version of the HEMNES mirror in black-brown)
as well as an x-bench (from HomeGoods) on the left side of the closet:
Now on to my review including the good, the bad, and the ugly of IKEA’s PAX Closet System:
*IKEA has a PAX Planner that allows you to create your dream closet online, providing you with the cost of your system and a printable list of the products you have chosen.
*The price of a custom PAX closet system is significantly less than most other custom closet systems including The Container’s Store elfa system and California Closets’ systems.
*It’s not difficult to put the PAX wardrobes and interior accessories together – they come with instructions that I thought were pretty easy to follow and require no special tools.
*The units line up and connect to one another well (we were able to connect our three PAX frames so that there are no gaps or spaces between them and they appear to be one continuous unit) and they are very sturdy.
*The KOMPLEMENT wood drawers, shoe organizer, and pull-out pants hangers all come with a sturdy track on which these accessories can be easily and smoothly pushed in and pulled out. They all seem very sturdy and well made. I’m also happy with the SKUBB storage boxes and love how the three boxes fit perfectly on the shelf for storage.
*I think that the finished closet system has an attractive, custom, high-end look.
*While the PAX closet system is easy to assemble, it requires two people and takes quite a bit of time for a large closet.
*The PAX wardrobe frames come in only three sizes – in most cases, you can create a combination of sizes that will work for your space but you most likely won’t end up with a fully wall-to-wall system.
*The PAX system only works well for walk-in closets (it’s generally not feasible to use inside your typical two-door closet).
*The wardrobe frames are made of particleboard so if you put a ding in them during assembly, the laminate could chip off (although we did not have this problem).
*The KOMPLEMENT wire basket/drawer is horrible – it comes with a totally different type of track than the KOMPLEMENT wood drawers and is very hard to slide in and out. Also, it comes off of the track if pulled out too far. I would recommend paying the extra money for the wood drawers.
*While I love my KOMPLEMENT shoe organizer, there isn’t a lot of space between the rows of shoes so I can’t use if for any of my shoes with big heels (Update! As noted above, IKEA now has shoe shelves and trays which seem like they would work much better!)
*Take a good look at all of the finish choices before you order because at least one of them has a very “fake wood” appearance and isn’t (in my opinion) very attractive. (Update!: I guess other people agreed with me because IKEA no longer offers the PAX in the finish that I thought was ugly. The three that they offer now are all fairly attractive)
*One of the interior accessories, the KOMPLEMENT handwoven storage with compartments, looked great online for organizing drawers, but in person it’s floppy, ugly, and useless. I would recommend that you learn from my mistake and look at all of the accessories in the store before purchasing them rather than going straight to the pick-up area with your list from online.
Overall, my husband and I are very happy with our PAX closet system and would choose to use it again in another home (even though I don’t relish the thought of spending hours and hours putting another one together…). I’d love to hear your experience if you have a PAX closet system or wardrobe and see if it’s the same as mine!
I only recently started following your blog but I’m so glad I did. Thank you very much for posting up this review and photos. We’re really lacking in storage space but low on budget so the PAX has been the main contender for a wall of closet space. It’s nice to see it in action!
I’m glad that you found it helpful Lindsay!
Same I’m in college with an apartment without closets… I’ve been researching the PAX and I’m so glad I saw this review! Pros and cons are always necessary!
I love your thoughtful attention to detail! Thanks for this review.
No problem – thanks for the comment Becky!
I too am really glad you posted this. I have been going over and over the Pax system online, trying to configure everything and wishing there were reviews. This is great. Thanks!
I remember how overwhelming that process was. Good luck and hope you love your new closet!
I’m designing a master closet for myself, a shoe lover. I need to maximize the space for storage found using a deeper unit can fit more shoes. Most closet design places only allow for one deep shoe shelves and the PAX unit shows four deep, which is a huge difference overall. What if I used the PAX shoe rack pictured above and added roll out shelf/drawers for shoes to be placed flat to accommodate the higher heeled shoes and flip flop type shoes that don’t fit the regular shoe form? I thought I would also add a hanging rod to hang boots vertically. Are there any other limitations to the PAX shoe rack you have? Do shoes fit firmly? Does it accommodate a range of shoe sizes? Thanks for your review.
Hi Debbie – that’s actually exactly what I did. In addition to my shoe rack, one of my KOMPLEMENT drawers is dedicated to holding all of my high heels and flip flops and it works well for me. The only issue with the shoe rack that I’ve had is with high heels – it’s otherwise great and fits my shoes firmly (they never fall off). Good luck with your closet design!
Oh perfect..it’s great to hear. I can’t wait to do the closets. My clothes have been begging me to let them out of the storage boxes for quite some time.
Thanks for this review. My holiday present from my husband is that we will demolish the two hideous reach in closets with brass and mirror sliding doors and replace the whole thing with 3 Pax closets and doors. I’ve seen some good hacks for making the Pax look built in, but no reviews on the Komplement interiors until this. Thanks for the reviews!
I have two questions. How are the full size clothes rails holding up. If I load them up will they hold up well?
Also, what have you done with boots? I have a few pairs and it doesn’t seem like Ikea has anyplace to put them.
Thanks
What a wonderful present! The clothing rails have held up very well and seem like they would support quite a bit of weight so I doubt you’ll have a problem. As for the boots, probably the best solution would be to lay them in a KOMPLEMENT drawer (I have one drawer dedicated to high heels and flip flops). I actually don’t keep mine in the closet – my boos are in a low profile storage bin on rollers under my bed.
This is a fabulous review. I have been wanting to do drawers under hanging clothes for some time now, but surprisingly have not seen many examples of that configuration. Thanks for posting!
That arrangement has worked out great for us!
Oh, that’s a good idea to keep boots under the bed. I’ve been trying to figure out where I’d put them also, but I want a storage bed anyway, so that would be perfect. I’m working with quite cramped space as I moved back in with my parents due to my mom’s health, and they gave me the master bedroom/bath but I’m trying to make it feel more like an ‘apartment’ in that there’s the bedroom and storage but also a work area. I want to put the ‘office’ in what is now a walk-in closet, so I’m looking at a wall of PAX wardrobes in the bedroom to replace the lost clothing storage. (I’ve been mocking it up online and it just seems more restful if the desk isn’t in the same room as the bed.)
Anyway – a question about the pants hanger. I want to do double height ‘hanging’ in one of the wardrobes – would you think the pants hanger or a second rail on the bottom would give me more storage space, having seen it in action? I do wear pants/trousers more than skirts. (I plan to also have a smaller long hanging space for my few dresses that need to hang up.) I was thinking the rail would be more versatile, but it looks like you can get a lot on the pants hanger…
(Bummer about the wire baskets, though. I was pondering a couple for laundry of the dry clean/hand wash variety, since I don’t have a lot but it needs to collect somewhere and the wire seemed better since it’d let stuff air out more in case anything was still damp or something when it got put in the hamper.)
I put two pairs of paints on each of the pant hanger rails in my closet so I think it fits more pants than if I had used a standard rail (but if you are only going to put one pair on each pants hanger, it will fit fewer pants than if you used a standard rail). As far as the wire basket goes, if you only have very light things in there, I think it would slide in and out ok. I was using mine for shoes so there was a decent amount of weight and it just didn’t work well. Good luck with creating your PAX system!
So happy I found this posting! I was wondering for men’s clothing & shoes. My husband is 6’4″ and wears size 14 shoe. Do you think there is a solution for storing his shoes?
Also I was wondering how far the top of the system is from your ceiling – and has there been any issue with space on top?
My husband doesn’t use the shoe organizer for his shoes – he just lays them flat in a KOMPLEMENT drawer – but I think the organizer would work for any size shoe. The only difference would be that you’d have to leave more space between the top of the shoe organizer and your next component (drawer or shelf) to allow for the taller shoes. As far as the space on top, there is only about 3″ between the top of the unit and the ceiling but we were still able to install it without a problem. The only issue I would foresee is if you have a walk-in closets with can lights or other ceiling lighting – the unit is so close to the ceiling that you wouldn’t want to put one of the PAX units in an area where lights are immediately over top of it. Hope that helps!
Thank u for writing this, I found it extremely helpful.
Thanks for the tips! I just scratched off the wire basket from my shopping list. That was really useful information! Thank you for sharing your experience.
This is perfect! I’ve been planning and planning which Pax setup I’m going to choose for our new closet organization. I’ve been trying to decide if the 39″ KOMPLEMENT elements hold up to lots of use – namely, the drawers… I’m worried the drawers will sag over time (they’re just SO WIDE) or fall off the rails, etc. Have you had any trouble with the extra wide Komplement drawers?
We had also considered the black/brown finish but were afraid it would scuff/scratch easily, so were thinking about the lighter birch finish. Have you had any troubles with this?
Finally, I know the shelves create a really deep ‘pocket’ of a shelf. I had considered using those shelves to stack jeans/pants or sweaters. Would I be better off with drawers, baskets, or hangers? I’m thinking now that it’ll become a messy sweater pit. 🙁
Thanks again for this review. I’ll ask more questions as I think of them. HAHA. But no really. 🙂
We’ve had our PAX closet system for over four years now and have had no problems at all with the wood drawers (you probably read that I don’t like the wire ones though). The wood drawers aren’t sagging at all and still roll in and out smoothly. The black/brown finish hasn’t scuffed at all – it looks just as new as the day we got it. However, it is particle board and so if you were to get a gouge in it, it would be more obvious than it would be with the lighter birch finish. As far as the shelves go – you are totally right. There is a lot of area in the back that isn’t all that easy to access when you use the shelves. The only shelves that I have (other than the one dividing my hanging pants from a drawer) are those at the top of each PAX unit. I would recommend drawers rather than shelves at the bottom of the units because it is much easier to access your clothes. Good luck with planning your closet!
As for the deep shelves, there’s a PAX shelf that’s only 13.75″ deep, vs. the full-depth 22&7/8″. I used some as the topmost shelves in a 29″ wide PAX system in my garage, and they make seeing things on the top shelf much easier. The 29″ ones are plenty strong for the yard chemicals, spray paints, etc., I have on them, so I suspect 39″ ones would be strong enough for clothes and stuff. The black-brown one is 602.469.33.
And Kris, thank you so much for your article. I’ve looked and looked at PAX at the store (and we got a quote from The Container Store, wow), but after using PAX in my garage and reading your post I’ve decided to finally do my wife’s closet in it. Now I’m off ot read the rest of your blog!
“The PAX system only works well for walk-in closets (it’s generally not feasible to use inside your typical two-door closet).”
Please tell me more. I have been planning to put the PAX in a closet wide enough for three horizontal sliding doors. What challenges would I face?
Hi Laura,
The problem for many non walk-in closets is that once the PAX frame is built, it is so much taller than the door opening that you can’t physically get it into the closet. That was the case for our standard closets. I had a friend who was convinced that she could make it work in her house and she got the first PAX frame in her closet but couldn’t get the second one in. Really, it all depends upon the size of your closet. I’m not saying that it never works but you’d definitely want to do a lot of measuring first and/or consider putting the actual frames together inside of the closet (which I think would be pretty challenging!)! Good luck!
Hi Kris,
I like the idea of hanging 2 pair of pants on each hanger. Do you remember the depth of your PAX unit? Can’t decide if I should go with the 26″ or the 23″.
Thanks,
dan
Hi Dan,
Our PAX units are 23″ deep. My husband and I both have a pull-out pants hanger and put two pairs of pants on each hanger. The pants do overlap a little (his more than mine) but it still works well for us.
Can you add to a pax unit once it’s built? ie, if you initially buy a 3 panel carcass, do you have the option one day of adding a fourth?
I hope I understand correctly what you’re asking but if you’re wondering whether you could attach an additional wardrobe frame in the future to existing wardrobe frames, the answer is yes.
That’s exactly what I meant. Thank you so much!
Thanks for your help. Do you feel it is necessary to remove the baseboard in the closet so the unit lies flat against the wall? Carpet too?
Good question Laura. We did it both ways – on our long wall with three side-by-side PAX units we removed the baseboard so that the units could be flush against the wall but on our short closet wall with just one unit, we kept the baseboard intact because otherwise you would be able to see a small missing area of baseboard as you entered our closet (and I was too lazy to remove the whole thing and just recut a piece to put back in the area that shows). Both ways worked just fine. If it’s easy for you to remove the baseboard and it doesn’t leave any “unbaseboarded” areas obviously showing, that is preferable. If you want to leave the baseboard intact, when you are attaching the units to the wall (which you should definitely do!), use some kind of spacer between the unit and the where you are attaching it to the wall – that will keep your unit staying vertically straight. As far as the carpet goes, we kept the wall to wall carpet totally intact. Good luck!
Now that you have had the PAX system for several months, have you found any problems with the shoe storage? I am trying to decide between the two Komplement units available. Also, can you tell me the assembled height of the units, unfortunately ikea doesnt give that dimension. Thanks so much!
I had my PAX system for a few years actually and never had any problem with the shoe storage – the shoe organizer is great! Only wish that I had room for a second one because I have more than the 16 pairs of shoes that one shoe organizer holds. Unfortunately, I can’t give you the assembled height of the units because we recently moved and I had to leave my PAX closet behind 🙁
HI Kris! LOVE this review! We have planned the closet and purchased the frames and components. Do you have any advice for installation? Not sure that the frame mounting brackets will line up with studs. Do you recommend using furring strips that would be anchored to wall and then frames mounted to strips? Or screw directly flush into drywall. Also, do you have any wall anchor (L-bracket) recs? Thank you!!!
Hi Alyssa! When we installed our closet, the units had to go in a particular spot so we weren’t able to position them where they would line up with the studs. To secure the units to the wall, we used our own drywall anchors & screws (specifically, the metal Cobra Wall Drillers). Hope that helps – good luck with the install!
We just finished installing our Pax system. Boy those frames are heavy!! Once we got the first frame together, which took us 4 hours, the others went quickly. We thought it would be nice it Ikea would label top/bottom left right. It is obvious once one is complete, but while in the middle of assembly it’s a bit confusing. The video was very helpful. There are LOTS of pieces; I laid everything(not the whole system, just each drawer, chest, etc.) out first and then assembled it all We have 9’ceilings so there is plenty of room above the frames for whatever. I’m thinking all my Vera bags. Our frames are 93″ tall.
It also would have been helpful if a template for installing handles on the chest of drawers would be included in the box. We made our own template, but since handles are necessary to open the drawers, an included template would be nice.
I still have 5 more Komplemnt drawers to install, but they won’t arrive until Tuesday, they were back ordered. We had them pull the order and deliver it. It did add $180.00 (we live way oustside the cheap delivery area) to our bill, but it was well worth the cost.
The unit looks great and was way cheaper than the “closet lady”, $1,800 vs.$3,700.
If we ever move, we will install another system. Though we might pay to have it assembled. We are not getting any younger.
Hope you new house is all you want it to be.
Great Blog. I just discovered it while searching for Pax hints.
I felt the same way – there was a big learning curve but once you got the hang of it, it was fairly easy. And definitely much, much less expensive than other options! Thanks for the kind words about our new house – I love it but I sure miss my old closet!
Thanks for your post. I was planning to have a contractor do a custom closet for me, but in his delay getting back with me, I found PAX. And I found this great blog article (thanks Kris!). BCGramma, your comments have convinced me that I will definitely go with PAX and not worry about custom closets from a contractor.
You’ll have to let us know how it turns out! Good luck!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I’m planning to use the Pax in my dressing room. I had been especially wondering about how my high heels would work in the shoe rack.
After reading all the comments and replies which all have been helpful I just have a few further questions;
Will shoes with a medium heel work in the shoe rack?
What do you recommend for purses? I had been thinking the wire baskets but after reading your review I am think I should use something else.
We will be buying 1 corner unit and from what I can tell you can only get the pre-set items (hanging & shelves) Any other creative ideas for the corner unit?
Thank You!
Hi Elyse – I put shoes with about a heel of about 1 1/2″ or less on the rack and kept the others elsewhere. For your purses, I wouldn’t recommend the wire drawers (purse buckles and other metal parts could easily get through the large mesh and scrape your PAX unit when sliding the drawer in and out) but you could use one of the KOMPLEMENT wood drawers. Another option would be to select the narrowest PAX unit for one of your closet units and devote it to your purses by adding several shelves. As far as the corner units, unfortunately I can’t help you there because we didn’t have any in our closet. Good luck with the designing and hope you love your new dressing room!
Thanks for all the great advise. We are moving to a new home with three units on one side of the room with another three facing it. The previous owner never installed any doors or sliders. We have purchased the larger sliding doors only to find that we cannot install a third. We are likely going to put a frosted pair of doors on the third unit. However, is it possible to cut and splice the tracks to allow all three sliders to close the units and avoid using two types of doors?
Sorry Joy – we didn’t install any doors so I don’t have any advice to send your way 🙁
This is a great article and I too am looking at the PAX system to solve my issues with closet space. I intend to use it in a den and turn it into a walk-in closet a lot like the “apartment” set up from an earlier comment. Budget is an issue. I used the PAX planner and found that my system (gonna rethink the baskets now) without doors is $585 and with doors is $1230. Can I add doors after it is built?
Hi Franklin – it sure seems like you could add doors at a later point but we didn’t have doors in our closet system so I’d ask an IKEA rep to be sure!
We just purchased ours and the lady who helped said that you can add doors after but you need to consider which kind first. Certain drawers at the bottom wouldn’t work with certain doors (I can’t remember which, but they have sliders and hinged doors. The mounting for one would be obstructed if you had a drawer at the bottom.) Also, you can only get sliders if you have two units of equal size right next to each other.
Hi Kris! I am in the process of planning our master bedroom re-model. This is an older home, so I do not have much space to work with the master bath and closet. I “googled” the question: What is the length of the wardrobe bar in the Pax corner unit? and came across your article. You may have already answered this question, but do you know? It would help so much with planning if I knew how much hanging space the corner units provided, and there is not a store near me. Thank you for sharing!
Hi Karen – our PAX closet system doesn’t include any corner units so unfortunately I don’t know the length of the wardrobe bar on those. I would give your nearest IKEA store a call – they can connect you to the right department and answer that question for you. Good luck with your closet planning! And BTW – love the little boston in your profile pic – we have one too – such great dogs!
Aha! This could the answer to my riddle! Thanks for your article Kris, I actually found this having designed my perfect PAX wardrobe, only to discover that there were no wire baskets in stock, at all, in ANY of the the IKEA stores in the UK.The small size in particular…there are none whatsoever. Very strange. I wonder if they have pulled the product? It’s shame because I liked the look, but I’m less gutted having read your post about the flimsy track. So it’s drawers methinks! Thanks for sharing.
I think that the wire drawers look great too but consider yourself lucky that you couldn’t find them. The wood drawers work so much better!!
Thanks for this review…how much weight do you find that the clothes rod can hold? We are thinking about buying a PAX closet system, and I’m trying to decide if we can put all our hanging clothes in there or if that will strain the bar too much—
Thanks!
Hi Laine, I’ve found the clothes rods to be very sturdy – at times ours have been packed full of hanging clothes and we’ve never had any issues with the rods not holding the weight.
Hi there.
I can’t seem to find the answer anywhere and am thinking i may just need to go to an ikea but do you know if the organizers i.e.: shoe organizer and pants rack, can be installed in my already existing non PAX closet system if the measurements fit?
Thank you
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work if the interior measurements of your closet system are EXACTLY the same as the PAX and you can drill matching holes into your organizers to attach the brackets that hold the shoe organizer and pants rack. But since both of these slide in and out on brackets attached to the units themselves, if your measurements are off at all, you’d have a hard time making it work.
I just wanted to comment that I love seeing your little Boston in these photos! We have 2 and are active in Boston rescue and I love seeing these little black and white pups pop up when I’m browsing for ideas!
Thanks so, so much for all that you do with the BT rescues! Our Boston was a rescue who came from an abusive home and she is the sweetest, most wonderful dog ever! She always shows up in pics because she sticks to me like glue 🙂
Well, it’s been a while since you installed this closet system. How’s it holding up? My experience with IKEA furniture is that it looks and behaves great for a while, then slowly starts to fall apart, with drawer tracks exploding in a shower of tiny ball bearings, handles coming loose, and screws digging their way out of the “fall-aparticle” board. How has the PAX system survived with daily use?
We installed our PAX closet system a few years before I did this post so we’ve now had it for over five years. It’s in great shape with no problems!
Thanks for the info. Im planning my pax wardrobe currently. ..I am thinking to go with white
My husband and I are, at this very moment, building a PAX unit for what will be my walk in closet/dressing room. We have a 100, two 50s and a corner unit. Because of the corner unit, we have a great distance between the wall and the unit itself at that part, and because of the baseboards, we have some distance between the unit as a whole and the wall along the entire unit. Can you make any recommendations about maintaining safety and solidity? We are planning on attaching the complete unit to the wall (still trying to determine what screws we need – we’re about an inch out from the wall so it’s a bit tricky, and we’re not at the studs at every point), but I’m wondering if we should stuff something between the backs of the units and the walls to create some sort of stability. Any ideas? If so, what would you recommend?
Hi Jo – we also had concerns about the units not being flush with the wall due to the baseboards. Here’s what we did – before we installed the units in our closet, we figured out where the studs were located behind each unit and then we took those measurements and marked the corresponding locations on our PAX units. We then drilled two holes in the back of each unit at those marks and after putting the units in their final locations in the closet, we secured them to the wall using wood screws that went through the drilled holes in the units, then a wood spacer (the same thickness as the baseboards) and then into the wall where they hit studs. This kept our PAX units stable and upright. Hope that helps!
Thanks, it does help. Unfortunately ours are already assembled and installed. We couldn’t find our studs so we made do and attached to the wall as we best we could with the recommendations of the hardware pro at the local hardware store. Here’s hoping the big one doesn’t hit any time soon (we’re in California). So far, though, I’m LOVING my Pax closets. Thanks for your blog – it’s beautiful and very inspiring. Take good care.
Glad that you were able to find a way to make it work! We’ve moved from the house where we installed our PAX closets and I really miss them. Hope you enjoy yours!
I paid Ikea (who outsources it) to put it together. I think it crazy to do it yourself. $350 to assemble. Money well spent.
With regard to those silly wire baskets (which we were forever rescuing from collapse in our previous Pax system), I may be able to solve a mystery for your commenter of last December… We are also in the UK and, having moved house, purchased a new Pax system last weekend. Having been fairly sure we would avoid the baskets, we were pleased to find they have been redesigned! This may explain their temporary disappearance – the rollers are looking much sturdier now so we’re giving them another chance, although our system is the half depth one so I may have remained wary of the deeper baskets…
Thanks so much for the info – let us know how the new baskets work!
This is super helpful; I’m so impressed that someone would take time to help out so many strangers. I’m trying to figure out if I can put the ikea complement interior chest of drawers http://www.polyvore.com/ikea_komplement_interior_chest_drawers/thing?id=36675519 (can’t find it on Ikea website) inside built in reach in closets. The closets have hanging space with a shelf above so they aren’t very useful. Any advice would be much appreciated.
I don’t think that the Komplement interior chest of drawers is available any longer (I haven’t seen it at our IKEA for a while now). If your closet system is a PAX system, I would just buy individual Komplement drawers to add to the PAX units. Good luck!
a cheaper and better solution is to get rid of 95% of the stuff since you will never wear it.
Can you use hanger rails in the narrow depth units? They are not offered as an option on that size open wardrobe frame
Sorry – I don’t know the answer to that since I don’t have any of the narrow PAX units.
Trying to decide if I should go with the white Pax wardrobe or the black/brown. I have a walk-in closet and plan on installing four wardrobe units. I’m concerned the darker color will make the closet seem small or dark, were you satisfied with the black/brown color?
I’m happy with the black/brown we chose for our closet but that was because it went best with our space. Our closet is off of our master bathroom which had vanities in the same wood tones so it all ties together well and I think that the black/brown. That being said, there are other closets in our house where the white wardrobe would have tied in with the rest of the room better and I would have chosen that. I do think the black/brown makes the overall closet space seem darker than the white would have which was fine in our situation because we have a lot of overhead lighting but if you don’t have much lighting, you may be happier with the white. Hope that helps!
Hi Kris! You blog was one the top returns when I googled seeking ideas for our master br walk-in closet. Great write up, enjoyed! If you have a moment, I would like to ask some questions before we proceed with our project. We have not purchased anything yet. Our closet accessed through our master bath, shaped like yours (a notch to left of door taking up some space in the closet. It is 13.5 ft wide by 9.5 ft deep with two windows on opposite wall of the door. Plan right now includes on one wall (left side of the room) a combo of a 30″, a 20″, and 30″ (rounding to nearest inch and all are the taller 93″ and 23″ deep). There will be about 1″ space left on each end so a near perfect fit. On front wall and right side will be a 30″, a corner unit, a 40″ and a 30″. This will end up with about 7″ of left over wall space. The back wall, between the two windows, we plan to put a thinner 13″ frame, 40″ wide, and 93″ tall and fill 80-90% of it with the metal shoe shelves.
My questions are: 1) since we need to replace the carpet, we’re contemplating ceramic tile (like the bath has and make continuous through closet (wife does not like that option) or re-carpet. My concern is how well the PAX frames will set on carpet and remain level and maintain a uniform look from one frame to another? 2) Since the frames don’t have a notch in the back bottom to fit around baseboards, did you remove / re-cut baseboards, or cut a notch from the back of the PAX frame, or just sit against the baseboard and managed to secure to the wall while keeping vertically straight? Thanks in advance and sorry for long message! – Marv
Hi Marv,
When we did our master closet, it was part of an addition to our house and so we debated ceramic tile vs. carpet too and ended up going with the carpet. We were able to make the PAX frames sit completely level and uniform from one frame to another by doing a few things. First of all, along our long wall where our frames almost completely covered the wall, we removed the baseboard so that the frames sat flush along the wall. For our other wall where we only have one unit and it would be obvious if there was no baseboard, we rested the PAX frame up against the baseboard and then used a small square of wood that’s the same depth as the baseboard as a spacer between the PAX unit and the wall where it was attached to the wall (our screws went through the PAX frame, then through the spacer, and then into the wall – we made sure we did it where we would hit studs). Then for the walls where you have more than one frame, we attached the frames to one another so they lined up perfectly and stayed lined up over time. Good luck with your closet!
What were the overall dimensions of the closet u used.?
Hi Shauna,
We’ve moved from the house where we installed our PAX closet so I don’t have the exact dimensions but you can get a pretty good idea of them from the second image in this post. Thanks!
Good review. Question: What specifically makes it not feasible to use inside your typical two-door closet? I have a typical two-door closet that desperately needs better organization than the wire closet maid kits can give. I thought if I removed the closet doors, and installed a couple of PAX wardrobes in there, it might work (for an open-closet look).
Thanks again.
The issues with installing a Pax system in most standard two-door closets are that (1) the Pax units are taller than the closet doors so they need to be angled into the closet and then stood upright. Many closets just aren’t deep enough for you to be able to do this. Also (2) many standard closets have a return (there is closet space to the left and the right that goes beyond the space of the closet doors). In this case, unless your closet is at least twice the depth of your Pax unit, there is no way to do a wall to wall install because you won’t be able to fit your last Pax unit through the door and into the remaining space. I guess you could try to build the Pax units inside the closet but I think that would be incredibly difficult to do. So, it’s going to depend on your specific closet and I’m sure there are some two-door closets where you could make it work, but I would do some careful measuring and give a lot of thought to it first. I had a friend who was convinced she could make it work in a standard closet and it wasn’t until she had put all of the Pax units together and gotten all but the last unit in her closet that she realized there was no way she could get the last one into its space and she had to scrap her plan. I hope that you have better luck if you give it a go – let me know if you’re able to make it work!
Do you see many PAX units used outside of the closet on freestanding walls within the bedroom? That’s what I am going to have to do. Any website references, tips or tricks for that?
Hi JC – yes, the PAX units have a bunch of different options for doors so that they can be used as freestanding units. I don’t have any experience using the PAX units that way myself but this blog post from the Little Green Notebook might be helpful to you: http://littlegreennotebook.blogspot.com/2013/09/wall-colors-and-wardrobes.html
Hi,
Thank you for all the information. Really enjoyed your article.
I have a couple of questions:
1. Can you provide a review of the new wire baskets? Are they better than the old ones?
2 We live in a cold place so we have plenty of fall and winter coats to hang. Are the smaller units more sturdier for hanging heavy clothes or are the bigger ones just as sturdy?
3. I have the option of going with 2 large units or 1 large, 1 medium and 1 small. Any benefits of going one way or the other from your experience?
Hi Jessie,
Unfortunately I haven’t seen the new wire baskets yet – the next time that I’m at IKEA I’m planning to check them out and will add some info about them to this post. As far as the sturdiness of the units, the smaller ones would be slightly sturdier since the support bar would be shorter but I still doubt that you would have any issues with hanging heavy clothes on the bigger units – we had ours packed with clothes and never had any issues. And regarding your choices in the unit sizes, I think it just all depends upon what you are using them for. If you’re just hanging things on them, having two units instead of three will give you a bit more hanging space. However, having a small unit is great if you need a space to put shelves for accessories like scarves, hats, etc. Hope that helps!
The first time I read this was before they renewed the Komplement-series, and I was very pleased to see the updates made now. Thank you! (I’d be interested in a review of the new wire baskets as well. The old ones were indeed useless – they went too cheap with them, I think.)
It seems, though, that some things come into different countries at very different times. The grey-and-rose cardboard boxes pictured in the Komplement drawer weren’t available here until recently.
You’re so right Milja – IKEA rolls out some things in the US first and some things overseas first. I haven’t seen the new wire baskets yet but will look at them the next time I’m at IKEA and add some info to this post!
I just bought a Pax system to store office file boxes in. I have the 39-inch-wide closet. At first I was just going to pile the boxes up, but then thought that would be a bad idea since the cabinet is about 8 ft tall. I looked into the Komplement shelves, but was told it only carries 44 pounds. Then I thought about instead using 1/4 inch stainless steel or aluminum round bars that can be inserted into the holes inside the cabinet. It should carry a lot more weight, as long as the sides of the cabinet are able to withstand more than 44 pounds. I am still trying to find info on that. Of course the downside of going that route is I have to insert the rods as I’m putting the closet together, and can’t move the shelves around after that without disassembling the unit. Do you have any suggestions that may solve my dilemma, or info on how much weight can be loaded per shelf using round bars rather than the Komplement shelf? Also, do you have any idea if the 39 inch Komplement shelf can carry more than 44 pounds?
Thank you!
Marc
Unfortunately I don’t have much information to help you out on this dilemma Marc. The only thing I can say is that since the PAX frames are made of particleboard, I would think that there is going to be a limit of how much weight they can handle even if you used round bars. If you’re going to be adding over 44 pounds of weight per shelf, you might be better off going with some other sort of heavy duty shelving.
Did your PAX hanging bars come with screws??
Yes, the bars did come with the screws even though they don’t show that online.
I am just about to buy the PAX wardrobes so it’s been great timing to find your blog. I see you have kept the system ‘open’ without doors – I have thought of this but do your clothes not get dusty? I have a temporary rail at the moment and they tend to get quite dusty so I thought doors would be a must! Any thoughts?
Hi Michelle,
I really never had a problem with my clothes getting dusty but my PAX wardrobes are in a walk-in closet that’s carpeted so there’s not as much dust getting kicked up as there would be if you had the wardrobes out in your bedroom. Hope that helps!
Hi, thanks so much for this review, it’s really helpful! It’s been a few years since you wrote this..I was curious if the closet is still holding up? We’re considering having our contractor drywall around it to give a built-in look, but that means if it breaks afterwards, it may be expensive/painful to replace. So we really want to get a sense of the quality beforehand. Thanks!
Hi Dita,
Yes, it’s been about five years since we installed our closet (it was done well before I wrote this post) and it has held up really well. I would definitely go with a PAX system again. However, you do have to be aware that it is particle board so it can chip and, if it does, it’s not very patchable. If you’re treating it well that shouldn’t be a problem but in a more rough and tumble space like a kids closet it’s more likely that it wouldn’t hold up as well or for as long.
Many thanks for your blog! I want to get the ~39″ wide PAX unit (the shorter one, which is ~ 79″ high i believe). I’d like to add 6 drawers, and a few open shelves, but have only seen four drawers used. Is it possible to install 6 drawers? I can’t find that info anywhere! Thanks! – BJ
Hi BJ,
Unfortunately we’ve moved from the house where we had our PAX closet system so I don’t have a way of looking at it to answer your question. I would recommend that you give an IKEA store a call – they have specialists in their closet/wardrobe organization section who I’m sure would be able to help you out!
Great review! I agree with nearly all your points. I recently installed 2 PAX closets in my home; one for a standard size closet originally with sliding doors and another for my walk-in closet (in the process). You’re configuration looks beautiful! How has the closet held up for you and your husband over the years?
Thanks Gina! Our PAX system has held up beautifully – we’ve had it for seven years now and it looks as good as the day that we installed it!
I love your review. I’m still in the process of deciding on which system to go with. I love the Pax system so far but my issue is the return in closet is only 18 1/2 inches on both sideds of the door. I think the pax comes in at least 22 inches in depth. Do you have any ideas?
That’s a tough one! Maybe you could integrate some IKEA narrow depth bookcases with shelving for open storage in those areas?
I am so glad I found your pin. I am going to IKEA this weekend with the hopes of putting together a walk-in closet for my master bedroom. The quote from the container store pushed me this way as well.
Maybe for a good is that there is no anchoring to the walls.
We just bought this system for our closet, but I was disappointed that I couldn’t find the full drawers with handles that I’ve seen in other pax closest posts. Some have referred to it as the chest of drawers. Have they discontinued that or is it sold in a different section of the store maybe? We went with the only drawers we found which install with gaps between the fronts when stacked. They don’t look quite as clean to me and I’d love the option of adding pretty handles. IKEA recently closed the in-store planning center (at my IKEA at least) so we had to guess on some of our decisions like how much room to leave for a pants hanger. I hope it all works out when we install it!
Just popping in to tell you it was your review, and the follow-up comment reply saying it’s still going strong, that convinced me to go with Pax over all the other choices out there. Just finished installing and showing it off to the neighbors and they didn’t believe that it was Ikea and definitely didn’t believe the price tag. Thanks for such a great review!
Just put together my PAX wardrobes. Don’t get too excited about the shoe trays; they made them an inch too deep for the wardrobe so if you have doors they won’t close all the way. 🙁
Oh no – that’s crazy! Good to know though – thanks for sharing that info!
I’m thinking of using the Pax for a Pantry with shelves and drawers. I know there are many types of particle board. Some will sag quickly if anything heavy is in the middle of a shelf; some are very strong (e.g. Calif. Closets – but $$$). Do you know if the shelves can handle pantry items over time?
Hi Mary – unfortunately I don’t have the answer to your question because I’ve only used the PAX system for clothes. Maybe someone else will read your comment and be able to chime in. Happy new year!
Thanks for your review. Extremely helpful. I too priced California Closet and wow, the price tag is 3K for Ikea and 15 K for California Closets.
How do you like the glass front drawers. My husband thinks they will finger print since you are pulling the actual glass. I thought they looked nice to show off the colorful sweaters inside and relief from just a solid set of drawers. We also have a bank of four drawers so I am thinking it mixes it up.
I am building a island and using six drawers under a custom top and adding a bench on the end. Have you heard of anyone doing that? Thanks for your help.
I think the brown black looks more expensive than the white. I could use either but definately like the elegance of the brown black.
Hi Sonia – sorry for the late reply – somehow I missed your comment when it came through! The difference in price is really astounding, right?! I actually don’t have any of the glass front doors because they weren’t available when we created our closet so unfortunately I can’t comment on them. As far as your island plan, I haven’t seen that done before but it sounds fabulous – you should go for it!
FYI, your basket drawer is put in backwards. That’s why it doesn’t slide smoothly. I discovered it because I too inserted it backwards. Smooth as butter and doesn’t fall out when put in properly
Thanks for the tip – I’m 100% sure we had ours in correctly – they didn’t fall out but just didn’t slide very well. Shortly after we got ours, IKEA redid them (I’m sure to address the issues they had) and I think the later versions were much better. Glad they work well for you!
I’m getting to re-do our master closet using these cabinets and I’m so excited! Thank you Kris! Is the ugly your talking about the white stain oak effect? We’re kinda leaning towards that although we haven’t seen them up close yet! :-l
Hi Vel! That’s definitely a fun project! The ugly finish I mentioned in this post no longer exists – IKEA pulled it from their PAX line. I haven’t see the white stain oak one that you’re talking about – sounds pretty though! Hope it comes together well!
Hello! I think this is fantastic and super insightful – I am looking to purchase a giant “2 bed” loft style apt. I say “2 bed” as there are currently no walls separating any of the rooms (the whole unit is 2200sf!) and I was thinking of using PAX to create the walls that separate the rooms from the main living space! Provides the privacy that you would want in a room, as well as, the needed storage that does not currently exist. My question for you is: did you attach these units to the wall behind the system or just to themselves? Do you feel they are study enough to standalone in a space without securing? Thank you so much!
Hi Erin! Yes, we attached the units to the wall behind them. Unfortunately, they are so tall that I’d be concerned about them not being secure enough without being attached at the back.
As an architect I love Ikea and have a house full of their products, but as a bit of a perfectionist, I was disappointed to discover some big flaws in the Pax/Complement system everyone should know about…if you want drawers and doors, Ikea made a big faux pas in not designing the drawers to be compatible with the hinge locations…You cannot place a drawer at the bottom and also have a door… so you end up with useless space – not the best concept in either design or ” organization”. I also believe the 93″ doors are too big for the self-closing hinges and will eventually pull themselves out of the unreinforced particle board doors. Ikea should go back to the drawing board on this one.
Thanks for your helpful input/advice John – I’ve never used the PAX system with doors so this is useful info to have!
We put four of them together with two very large sliding doors to hide all our mud room mess. We have had them since 2008. They have taken a lot of abuse living in Minnesota weather extremes. I caulked the lower seams to protect the particle board insides from water when storing snowy boots and equipment. We have 6 family members and a dog. I LOVE the sliding doors and I am impressed with their performance after all of these years; still glide back and forth effortlessly. I am having trouble finding replacement plastic drawers for our recycling. They may have discontinued these drawers. Will definitely buy another PAX system and assemble myself. I go to IKEA to save money and cringe at the thought of paying someone to assemble for $350. Very good product.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience!
I have had 4 PAX closets (2 for me & 2 for my husband) for the last 4 years or so and I really liked them. We had them without sliding doors and with the sliding doors since they were actually in the bedroom as opposed to inside a walk-in closet. The doors looked nice, but I preferred being about to just walk right up and pick out something out of both closets without having to slide the doors back and forth. We installed lighting at the top that was plugged in to an outlet on a switch for one set of closets and the other set was plugged into a radio frequency wireless plug/light switch set up. It worked great!
We just moved to a different house with a walk-in closet that has built in shelves, etc and I’m really missing my PAX closets because now I’m going to have to buy a dresser so I can have some drawers storage space! Boohoo!
Thanks so much for sharing your experience! And I feel your pain – we’ve moved to a new house that has no closet organization and I miss my PAX closets so much!
Thank you, this was very helpful????
Can someone tell me what the heights of the Komplement wooden drawers and the 2-tier pull-out shoe racks are please?
Did you remove the baseboards prior to installation so that the whole pax system is flished to the wall? Thank you!
I did remove the baseboards on the far side of the closet where the PAX units filled the whole wall. I didn’t remove them on the other side of my closet where I have a single unit. So that it stood directly upright, we used wood spacers at the top of the units where we attached them to the wall.
I understand my comment is several years too late ???? but I came across your post and loved how informative it was. I want to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinions. I have custom made a pax wardrobe online but before purchasing it, I was hoping you could answer a couple questions for me. When hanging all of your clothes on the clothes pole does it seem to bow in or lack stability? Also same with the pants pull out rack. If you put several heavy pair of jeans will the rack start to droop down from the weight of the pants? Have you ever felt like the frame was going to give out from all the weight of the things inside? I know most particle board products I’ve purchased have became junk not to much later. Thank you so much!
Hi Rachael, I never had any issues like that whatsoever – the bars are all really sturdy, as are the wardrobes themselves!
Hi Kris,
I read far and wide before I purchased my Pax system but would say yours is the best detailed article I found which helped give me the courage to order.
I would comment (at this late date after your article, I know) that you need to make sure that you have ordered everything. I found the IKEA planning tool cumbersome and it was always tricky trying to make it back to my plan at the website (yes I did have a log in and account). I made my shopping list twice and still forgot to order the poles! I was also concerned because IKEA posted prominently about buying your own hardware to affix and never got a straight answer from their support. My closet system flanked one entire wall in my bedroom and I did not remove baseboards. It was easy to find anchors but I had to scour Home Depot for a “spacer” to insert between the back of the unit and the wall, which ended up being a plastic end piece for furniture legs that fit exactly.
Also…we found out that we had just enough space to assemble and would have been up a creek with any less space.
I also read everywhere in their literature not to forget the hinges with the doors. So I ordered hinges. Ikea FORGOT the hinges in the shipment. I guess good thing so, because when I called them they said when ordering online you don’t order extra hinges, they come with the doors, so they credited me for the double order. But if you go to their store you DO have to buy the hinges separate.
Great article and thorough.
Best regards, and thanks! KK German, Virginia Beach, VA
Thanks so much for adding all of that helpful info!!!
Hi there,
I am not sure if you have mentioned this in any of your comments, but did you or your husband take the baseboards out of the closet before you did this? And also did you install this over pre-existing carpet? Any information would be helpful thank you very much
Gil
Hi Gil,
On the long side of our closet we did take out the baseboards since you wouldn’t be able to see if they were there or no. On the short side we kept the baseboard intact and added wood spacers between the PAX units and the wall to keep them exactly upright. And all of them were installed over preexisting carpet – that didn’t cause any type of issues. Hope that helps!
Kris
Love what you did! You are inspiring me to re-do my master. Quick question. I could either do 2 columns of 39″ PAX, or 3 columns of 29″. I have never had a “real” closet before, just what comes standard. In your opinion, would it work better to have fewer wider drawers, or more narrower drawers? Trying to decide today, as I just learned Ikea is having their annual Pax sale and it ends today! I appreciate any advice!
Hi Wona! You lose a little bit of space with every additional unit that you use so my personal preference would be to do the two columns! Good luck with your project!
Does anyone know if IKEA provides or a hack can be easily had to create spacers for some PAX units that are short about 4″ across an 8′ space. I am installing 9 total boxes, but the one wall that I am short on has two corner units and one 39″ between them. I was hoping to be able to put about a 2″ spacer between the 39″ box and each corner unit to get the units running along the perpendicular walls to be flush to the walls. I was considering buying an extra box and just having spacers made out of the wood from the extra box, but was wondering if there was an easier solution? By the way, I won’t ask you if you removed your base boards since you have already answered that question about 7 times lol. Thanks for the information, very helpful.
Darren I don’t know the answer to this but it would sure be great if they did!
Hi. I am trying to find out the internal width of the frame. If the width of a frame says 19 5/8 then what is the internal width of the frame. Thank you for the help.
Quick question: how tall are your units? The ceiling in our room is slanted and the shorter end will only allow us to use the 79 1/4″ tall frames. I’m worried it might not work for double rods AND added drawers/shelves…
Lauren unfortunately I’ve moved since the time of this post so I can’t measure the closet system for you – sorry!
Hi, this is Matija from Slovenia here.
I was just wondering if you could tell me, if it would be possible to organize such wardrobe direct to the top of the ceiling (sorry form my English). Looking for a solution to mount wardrobe closet direct to the top. PAX ideas looks fantastic, just don’t know if they have such option.
Thanks in advance and my regards, Matija
Great review! I also just put Pax wardrobes in my walk in closet. I love how seamless your wall of units look. How did you connect your wardrobes together?
We connected them together with screws and nuts through the predrilled holes on the sides of the units.
Thank you for your honest review on the Pax. My husband and I are currently renovating our home and are going to use the Pax as a wardrobe in our bedroom. Unfortunately, we will not have a closet to put it in so it will be be near the entrance of the room. I am debati
I’m sorry, this was posted before I could finish but I am asking if the brown black showed signs of scratching or dust? I am debating between white and brown black
The brown black would get dusty after a bit but honestly I was ok with that because I’d rather see it and know to clean it than be oblivious to it! It didn’t scratch at all – we even had renters in the house for two years and it still looked perfect!
Hey Kris,
Thanks so much for providing an honest review. I am considering to purchase a Pax wardrobe with a door (to kind of serve as a standalone wardrobe in one corner of the room). I just wanted to ask if you guys decided to wall mount the pax wardrobes or just left them without the wall mount? I wanted to have Ikea folks assemble the wardrobe for us (they do it for $100 which I think it’s pretty reasonable) however, they said that for them to wall mount the wardrobe, the baseboards should be removed (so that the wardrobe can line up perfectly against the wall). Did you have any experience with mounting the Pax wardrobe on the wall? I have recently renovated my condo and I need extra storage space so I was very excited about Pax until I heard about removing the baseboards. Any help and advice that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot.
Nina
Hi Nina! We did attach ours to the wall. On one side we removed the baseboard so it was flush to the wall but for the single unit on the other side we didn’t want to remove the baseboard so we just put a wood spacer between the PAX unit and the wall and attached it with a screw that went through the spacer so that the PAX unit was totally upright rather than tilted back toward the wall. Hopefully that makes sense!
Thanks Chris a lot. Really appreciate your insights.
This was great. Thank you for taking the time to write this review. If you did home modeling I’d ask you to come to ours – it’s an organizational NIGHTMARE!!!!!
This was great. I looked at baskets but was worried seeing them open in store. The tracks seemed very flimsy.
I have looked at Elfa and was shocked at final price they gave me. I have done Easy Track and it is good but not enough options for interiors.
Thanks so much.
Hi, what depth did you go with, the 22″+ or 13″+? I’m thinking the 13 doesn’t allow for a clothes rail…
These are the 22″ depth!
Questions:
1. Did you attach wardrobes to the wall?
2. Did you remove baseboards to get a tighter fit?
3. Any problems with wardrobes being on carpet?
Thanks!
Hi Jill, if you look a few comments up at my response to Nina I detail more about how I attached them. And no, I had no problems with the carpet!
Nice, helpful review. I just came back from IKEA and will be ordering a PAX system to fill up (most of) a 7′ x 10′ bedroom wall. With sliding mirrored doors, it will be about $700, but that is Much Less than having an actual Closet built!
I’ll consider this idea as well!
I’ve been married 18 years and don’t have a closet!!! I’m finally getting one and this review helped as I was looking at closetmaid wardrobes. I’ve expanded my search thanks to your article and am having a closet built and will be taking the two hour trip to IKEA. Looking forward to it! I think after 18 years I deserve a nice closet, don’t you?
That’s super exciting – you totally deserve it!!
My wife and I purchased the Pax system for our bedroom and was so impressed and pleased with it that our 3 sons now also have it in their rooms too.I find the fact that you can customise it to suit anyone is brilliant and personally I will be buying it again when needed not that it will be any time soon as this is so well made I think it may outlast me.
Did you mount your PAX system to the wall? I just bought mine yesterday. I have yet to put it together and am reading mixed things on whether to mount it to the wall or not. Some people say putting it on carpet should be fine and others say as long as you have enough stuff in it it should be fine. But then others say it’s best to mount. I have no idea where to even start with wall mounting. Any advice? Or what did you do?
Yes, I did mount it to the wall – based on their height I honestly wouldn’t feel comfortable not securing them at the top because they could easily fall over. There are instructions in the box with the Pax system about how to secure them – it’s pretty easy to do!
I think it’s worth noting in your review that sometime in the past two years IKEA reengineered their PAX line to be hollow core. The pro is they weigh far less and are easier to put together. The con is they are no longer very sturdy. The wood shelves start sagging after 6 months (so go with glass shelves) and you can’t really notch them or adjust their sizes beyond factory options as they don’t have enough structural integrity.
An alternative would be to build your own frame from plywood, paint, then use IKEA’s affordable doors and accessories.
I’m in the process of putting together another PAX closet and the pieces are solid just like when I used them before so I’m surprised to hear you say that yours were hollow core.